I apologize.

"Berang" (berang) 05/15/2018 at 02:27 • Filed to: None

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I did not realize that turning an ignition key was such a herculean inconvenience to first world dwellers. Nor did I realize that PUSHING a thing a few millimeters instead of TURNING a thing a few millimeters to start a car was such a groundbreaking technological leap. My lack of appreciation for the march of progress! Forgive it please!

Svend > Berang 05/15/2018 at 03:10

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It’s the idiots with the start/stop.

They are aware you press start to start the engine, yet think you just walk away from the car and it’ll turn the engine off.

IT’S START/STOP FOR F**KS SAKE

Start to start it, stop to stop it.

I mean it doesn’t need explaining but I’m sure the dealer explains it to them when they buy the car.

When we picked up Piglet, we sat down with the salesman, who talked through the initial features of the car, then we sat in the car for half an hour explaining in more depth, giving a tutorial on all the settings, how the electronic handbrake works, setting up Bluetooth, etc... But then again this was a U.K. dealership. So there is that.

Berang > Svend 05/15/2018 at 03:57

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No, it’s just a failure of design. Literally, it is a failure of engineers to understand the basic function of what a key does.

Svend > Berang 05/15/2018 at 04:17

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I don’t think it’s a failure of the manufacturer, it’s a failure of the customer, the operator to understand how it works and to operate it correctly. In theory and execution it’s great, but when the end user is stupid, the manufacturer is asked to make it more fool proof rather than the foll end user getting properly acquainted with the product.

We are gearing the world up for the stupidest of the stupidest.

  > Berang 05/15/2018 at 04:24

5

Stop/start buttons make me so angry. It’s a step back in convenience. My car key, house keys, and garage clicker are all on one ring. I don’t want that shit digging into my pocket while I drive, nor do I want to fumble around trying to put them somewhere that wont scratch up my interior every time I get in.

Insert key while getting in, twist with one hand, handbrake off with the other, brake, gear, go. Buttons slow down every step of this process.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > Berang 05/15/2018 at 04:46

1

Needs more screwdriver

kanadanmajava1 > Svend 05/15/2018 at 04:54

0

We had a field test couple years ago using a small fleet of Golf MkVIIs. They of course a start/stop button and also a start/stop function for the engine. The latter will let the diesel engine (yuck) stop when suitable conditions are met.

But the integration of these two system had a quite annoying issue. This could occur if I was driving the car and needed to do something quick outside the car. If the start/stop system wasn’t able to stop the diesel engine nothing annoying did happen. IF the car decided to stop the engine while I stopped the car, put the gear lever to park and opened the door some kind of annoying safety mechanism engaged.

When I was ready to continue again the dash display is saying something like “restart the engine”. So does the engine start if I press the button? No it does not. The whole car shuts down. Then I press the button again and the engines starts again but of course the car has forgotten the Bluetooth pairing with my phone at this point.

Some of my own cars also have an inginition lock that lets you turn the key only once to start position unless the lock has been reset by turning it back to off position. The idea of this mechanism to prevent operating the starter while the engine is running. But this is still very annoying too.

Berang > Svend 05/15/2018 at 05:47

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Good design aims to be intuitive. Design which is counter-intuitive is bad design. If you need the key to operate the machine, it makes no sense that the machine will still operate if the key is removed. This is patently bad design, not a user issue.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Svend 05/15/2018 at 06:04

3

I personally think proximity keys are just really stupid. We’ve even seen dealers lose brand new cars because with the right software they just sniff the signal out if the air and rebroadcast it so the car thinks they key is around? I know smart ignition keys have a chip in them too...even my Accent has that, but you can’t sniff a physical key out of the air, at least.

Pus, is turning a key that hard...? I agree with you 200%...call me old fashioned.

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 05/15/2018 at 06:47

1

After having prox keys on my last 4 cars, I don’t want to go back to a physical key. It’s become very convenient to just keep a key in my pocket and not have to mess with it physically to work the vehicle. But I also have a regular key for my truck and it works okay too, but I still prefer the prox setup.

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > Svend 05/15/2018 at 06:49

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That’s the problem with trying to idiot proof everything, someone just makes a better idiot to screw or up again.

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc >   05/15/2018 at 06:57

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It’s just poor execution then. I love the way audi does it. There is a physical key and ignition, but they also have the start/stop, if you opt for it. It works great, at least for me. As for trans garage clicker, I have had that integrated into all of the last 4 or 5 cars with prox keys, so no issues there. Just my car keys and work keys on my key ring. Leave them in my pocket and I’m good to go. No fumbling for a key as I approach. Just grab the handle, sit, hit the button, ebrake off, shift and off I go. Pretty simple and intuitive. Shutdown is the reverse order. Easy peasy.

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > Berang 05/15/2018 at 07:03

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How is that? The buttons work the same way a key does. You hit it once without foot on the brake and you get accessories, hit it again and you get ignition on accessories, or if you apply the brake and press it, the vehicle starts. Similar to a key with its detents. Turn counter clockwise to get accessories, turn clockwise one notch for ignition on accessories and turn it clockwise two notches to start the car. The button will give you all those functions, or bypass and start if your foot is on the brake. So simple. My Audi’s even have a physical keyed ignition of you are feeling nostalgic. Or something goes wrong with the keyless system. It’s the best of both worlds.

UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy >   05/15/2018 at 07:06

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I do like the push button only for being able to get back out and go inside if I forget something. That’s about it

404 - User No Longer Available > Berang 05/15/2018 at 07:22

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Blame Microsoft. They started the press Start to shutdown thing all the way back in 1995.

/s

Textured Soy Protein > Berang 05/15/2018 at 07:24

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A key? How quaint.

imadick >   05/15/2018 at 07:27

1

People still have house keys? The only thing I have on my key ring is my car fob, office fob, and house fob. Keys are so 2017....

Sovande > Berang 05/15/2018 at 07:56

1

How upset do you get with things that are actually problems? Because this is not a thing that is an actual problem.

facw > Berang 05/15/2018 at 08:23

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But why do you need a key? A normal transponder key already works like a start/stop fob, so why require the now obsolete key/lock portion? The car already knows you have the key.

The real problem (at least regarding these stories about poisoning from cars left on), is that the car should turn off if the key goes out of range, which would be easy to implement. Some people might want to leave their car on to get the interior hot/cold, but then leaving the fob in the car is exactly how it works with physical keys (and probably a bad idea in general). It seems like it wouldn’t be hard to implement special modes for that anyway.

facw > Berang 05/15/2018 at 08:26

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A key does two things:

Provide a switch to turn the car and off (really switch between modes)

Make it difficult for someone that does not have the key to acess and start the car.

A start/stop button does the first, and a proximity fob does the second. There’s not really any change in functionality, aside from the (dumb) decision to let the car continue running without the fob present. 

LongbowMkII > Berang 05/15/2018 at 08:45

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The s2000 popularized it, but I find it annoying. I’m already turning the key, but now I have to use my left hand to start it.

Svend > Berang 05/15/2018 at 08:54

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I take your point and would like the proximity key to work much more closer up only.

I have a physical key. The key fob allows me to open and close all the windows and open the boot (not close) as well as lock and unlock the car, and that is enough for my.

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero >   05/15/2018 at 09:13

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ive got a smart lock on my front door where all i do is hold my phone up to it and it unlocks and my 04 explorer has the garage door buttons on the roof that ive programmed. if it had a start button vs a regular key there would literally be no reason for me to carry around anything but the key fob

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > facw 05/15/2018 at 09:15

1

some do though, my in laws murano will automatically shut off if the key gets more than25-30 feet away. the problem is a lot of these people are parking their cars in a garage and leaving the key somewhere close to the door so its never out of range for the car to shut off

Nothing > Berang 05/15/2018 at 09:19

1

Make people feel one with the car again, go back to crank starting!

I prefer physical keys. My father in law took my brother in law to the airport in his (brother in law’s) Jeep. Brother in law gets out, goes in the airport, father in law drives away. Jeep needs gas, that’s when my father in law notices he has no key, and his son went into the airport with the proximity key in his pocket.

Milky > Berang 05/15/2018 at 09:23

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But you don’t need a key. You know to turn off your TV/oven/etc before you walk away from it. A car doesn’t have to be any different.

I rather like my proximity key.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Milky 05/15/2018 at 09:26

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But a car can like kill people. A TV just kills people slowly.

DipodomysDeserti > Berang 05/15/2018 at 09:33

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I programmed my BMW so that if defaults to the start/stop function being deactivated. I hate that shit. I hate push button ignitions too, but that’s a lot harder to swap out.

Milky > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 05/15/2018 at 09:38

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Why I used oven an example too.

someassemblyrequired > Berang 05/15/2018 at 09:44

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The super vintage turn key, then push button >> all other starting methods.

I have one car with keyless, and when I first got it, it scared the crap out of me - because it didn’t have the interlock on the shifter. It was recalled, and now it throws it in park if you open the drivers door, or press the stop button and the car is going less than 1MPH (over 1MPH it selects neutral). But that’s something that it should have never left the factory without.

Keyless is convenient, especially with kids. Plus it’s really really hard to lock your keys in the car. But the theft risk and the lack of intuitiveness (holding down the button to shut off if your throttle sticks) is dangerous. I’d prefer a proximity key to open the car only, then a key to operate the ignition.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Milky 05/15/2018 at 09:45

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I saw that but I omitted from my rebuttal because it did not fit my social commentary regarding televisions

Milky > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 05/15/2018 at 09:56

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But they’re pretty dangerous tho

Berang > facw 05/15/2018 at 13:57

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It’s not that there needs to be a key one has to physically insert then turn, it’s that the key needs to actually function AS A KEY. If you need the key to run the vehicle - the vehicle SHOULD NOT RUN without it! This should be obvious to anybody who has thought for three seconds about what the purpose of a key is - apparently engineers haven’t.

Berang > Sovande 05/15/2018 at 14:03

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Lighten up, Francis.

Sovande > Berang 05/15/2018 at 14:24

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Says the guy who can’t wrap his head around the push button.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc 05/15/2018 at 15:26

1

I dunno, there comes a time when we start making things we don’t really need....keys worked fine. Pushbutton keyless entry worked fine with key fobs and key remotes, proxy keys just seem like a step beyond for the sake of laziness....I mean, we’re creating more complicated technology for the sake of not pressing ONE button, or making a physical motion to turn a key in a lock....it just seems really lazy to me, haha!

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 05/15/2018 at 17:38

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Maybe, but the tech is out there now, and has been for over a decade, so there will be folks like me that really take to the functionality of the prox keys and won’t go back for anything... well except for our older cars, like my truck. Still a key for that one. If you always have a key, then you don’t need to change, but once you’ve become accustomed to it, been using the keyless ignitions since 2008 personally, I doubt you’d want to go back. But as far as how well the systems work, they do a fine job, it’s just some folks have issues figuring anything new out. But you’ll always have those folks with us. Can’t make everything idiot proof.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC >   05/16/2018 at 22:03

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I’m the opposite. I prefer not having the key that requires being turned. My car has a proximity key so it unlocks when I grab the handle to open the door. I get in, push the start button and it’s on. I’ve eliminated a step by not having to remove keys from my pocket. I only have the car key, there isn’t anything else on my keyfob. I leave the garage clicker in my car’s cubby under the HVAC controls.